More AA stuff.

[masque12]

Here is the original AA 12 steps. Below is my redaction of them, from a Left Hand Path perspective. Take them as you will.

1. Admit you have a problem, but realize that you have the power to overcome it.

2. Know that you have to do the work yourself, no force outside yourself can do it for you.

3. Make a decision to take control of your life, become the master of your own destiny.

4. Make an accurate assessment of yourself, recognizing your weaknesses AND strengths, and decide what you want to change about yourself.

5. Acknowledge what mistakes you have made in the past, and move past them, realize that dwelling on the past won't get you anywhere.

6. Ready yourself to change your life for the better, to repair whatever defects of character you think you have.

7. Work towards correcting your shortcomings, have the confidence to know you can change yourself if you desire.

8. Take responsibility for your actions, and make amends for those in the past where necessary.

9. Make direct amends to people you have wronged, and hold those responsible who have wronged you.

10. Maintain an accurate assessment of your progress. When you make mistakes, make amends, and when you do something right, reward yourself.

11. Seek through meditation and reflection to gain an understanding of your will, and to KNOW that your life is under your control. You have the power to change yourself, and no one and nothing can take that away from you.

12. Decide for yourself if you want to help other people to learn how to regain control of their lives as you have.

Comments

[xi-o-teaz.livejournal.com]

That's fucking beautiful, masque. As a psych major, I'm always interested in alternative answers to things in psychology that are "held as gospel".

Thank you so much for sharing it ;-)

[masque12.livejournal.com]

Heh, thanks, but it's really no big thing. All I did was look at the AA 12 steps and turn them on their ass. From what I've read, everything AA recommends seems to be the polar opposite of the right attitude to have when overcoming addiction, I figured I'd see what happened if I reversed it. There's a couple that didn't get reversed, and for those I just re-worded them slightly. I don't know about it being an alternative to "psychology", my redaction above is actually closer to what a real psychologist would recommend as a recovery technique, at least based on the psychology stuff I've read. It's definitely an alternative to AA, though.

[masque12.livejournal.com]

As an addendum to my other post, all I've done is applied the concept of personal responsibility to the 12 step format. People are a lot stronger and capable than they think they are, and especially more than AA will let them take credit for.

[xi-o-teaz.livejournal.com]

I see what you said...but it's always the Simple things that can strike a chord.

As much as I love psychology, I most definitely have certain problems with it (at least as it's taught in the university--I have yet to be able to use it "professionally"). I have come up with a number of "renegade psychology" concepts my selves, and am always glad to add more to my bag o' tricks.

Not having been in A.A., I've not Experienced it much, and so may not have thought of this. But now that I've added this to my "meme-ories", I can have something to reference next time a friend comes to me about A.A. (many people come to me, knowing my psych background...too bad they're only friends with no money ;-)

[masque12.livejournal.com]

I see what you said...but it's always the Simple things that can strike a chord.

Oh, definitely. If I come across something like AA, that just seems completely wrong and backwards, I test it out. Switch it around, turn it inside out, and see if it works better that way. Simple, but effective.

As much as I love psychology, I most definitely have certain problems with it (at least as it's taught in the university--I have yet to be able to use it "professionally"). I have come up with a number of "renegade psychology" concepts my selves, and am always glad to add more to my bag o' tricks.

I never took it in school, most of my knowledge of it has been reading about it on my own, and personal experience with shrinks I've gone to. I'm rather partial to the psychological standpoint of most of the New Falcon writers, Robert Anton Wilson and Christopher Hyatt in particular. It helps that they're also magicians, and their take on it is going to be similar to mine. On a certain level, magic is just applied, DIY psychology anyway...

Not having been in A.A., I've not Experienced it much, and so may not have thought of this. But now that I've added this to my "meme-ories", I can have something to reference next time a friend comes to me about A.A. (many people come to me, knowing my psych background...too bad they're only friends with no money ;-)

I haven't been in it either, but I have some friends who are, so I started looking into it, and I didn't like what I found. You may have seen it in my previous journal entry, but in case you didn't, this is also a good site to send people to:
http://www.aadeprogramming.com/index_frames.html

[00goddess.livejournal.com]

Here's my issue with #1: addicts hit bottom BECAUSE they don't have the power to overcome their addiction. That's precisely the problem.

I'm not an addict, but addiction runs in my family, so I've seen addiction first hand. Addiction is not a character flaw- it's biological. You can't wake up in the morning and decide not to produce carbon dioxide that day. An addict cannot just wake up in the morning and decide not to be addicted.

I'm sure you've heard someone say "I can quit anytime;" it's become a joke about addiction. It's become a joke precisely because it's a false statement: an addict can't quit anytime; that's hir problem. An addict who believes that they have the power to overcome their addiction, alone, is swimmin' in denial. Addicts who have some sort of outside support system be it AA or rehab are much less likely to relapse.

The first step is often broken down to "admit that you have a problem," because that is what it means, and why it's the first step. If they can quit anytime, it's not a problem.

The twelve steps are meant to be taken in order, as one becomes ready, not all at once, so until one takes the first step- admitting that they are powerless over their addiction- they can't even move on to the next steps.

[masque12.livejournal.com]

Here's my issue with #1: addicts hit bottom BECAUSE they don't have the power to overcome their addiction. That's precisely the problem.

Ultimately, they do. If they're trying to quit, if they're in recovery or something, they have made a decision, and they're attempting to follow through on it. That's what I mean by them having the power, because if they didn't, they wouldn't even be in recovery, would they?

I'm not an addict, but addiction runs in my family, so I've seen addiction first hand. Addiction is not a character flaw- it's biological. You can't wake up in the morning and decide not to produce carbon dioxide that day. An addict cannot just wake up in the morning and decide not to be addicted.

...an addict can't quit anytime; that's hir problem.

I know addiction itself is not a character flaw, but a chemical dependency. But except in specific cases (crack babies come to mind), no one is born addicted to anything. It starts out by choice, it develops into a biological necessity later. That's kind of a separate discussion. In any case, once someone is addicted, yes, they can't just up and quit. However, if they're going to quit, it's a decision they have to make to take control of their life. They can't just say, "OK, I'm done." and expect to be successful with it, but to start the process of overcoming their addiction is something I view as a self-directed, powerful action, especially since their choosing to overcome something which is definitely chemical in nature (for most substances, at any rate.)

An addict who believes that they have the power to overcome their addiction, alone, is swimmin' in denial. Addicts who have some sort of outside support system be it AA or rehab are much less likely to relapse.

I'm not saying they should try to quit on their own, by no means. Outside support is definitely a big help. Ultimately the addict has to take the initiative and quit, but I'm not saying they can't have others to offer support while they do so. Incidentally, I have seen statistics that show a reduced relapse rate for addicts in some support groups, but not AA. It's kind of hard, as AA doesn't publish any numbers, which makes me suspicious about its recovery rate in itself.

The first step is often broken down to "admit that you have a problem," because that is what it means, and why it's the first step. If they can quit anytime, it's not a problem.

I'm aware of that, that's a whole other thread, there, about the US legal inability to distinguish between a substance user and abuser, ;-).

The twelve steps are meant to be taken in order, as one becomes ready, not all at once, so until one takes the first step- admitting that they are powerless over their addiction- they can't even move on to the next steps.

See, I disagree here, if slightly. The first step, as I see it, is not to admit, but to realize that they are, in fact, addicted to whatever it is, alcohol, drugs, etc. I definitely wouldn't be throwing in anything about powerlessness. Even if they are powerless, you don't want to reinforce that kind of thinking, you want them to start becoming powerful OVER it. In my view, once they realize that the addiction is an issue, and they decide to do something about it, they are no longer powerless. They may not be strong yet, but they've taken steps towards bringing their life under control, and that is power. Sure, they may stumble and fall in their struggle, and need the help of others along the way, but THEY decided to change, not someone else, not God, and when they finally do successfully quit, it will be THEIR accomplishment, even with help, and AA won't acknowledge that. I have no problem with support groups in general, I just have a problem with the AA dogma that teaches and reinforces the idea that their members don't have control over their lives.

I haven't even got into the unhealthy way they deal with people's emotional issues, the fact that they apply the same blanket solution to everyone without considering the individual's particular case history, its unsuitability for victims of abuse, particularly women, the list goes on and on.

[00goddess.livejournal.com]

It starts out by choice, it develops into a biological necessity later.

Using is a choice. Addiction is not. Someone might choose to use, not knowing that they are predisposed to addiction.

In my view, once they realize that the addiction is an issue, and they decide to do something about it, they are no longer powerless.

Realizing an addiction is a problem and deciding to do something about it doesn't guarantee recovery. An addict is not powerless in general- but the very nature of addiction is that you don't have control over it. Gaining power greater than that of the addiction is the goal of recovery. You don't get that power just by deciding to recover.

You're equating "powerless in the face of addition" to "powerless in general" and they aren't the same thing. There are plenty of functional addicts who have jobs, houses, families, etc, and also maintain their addiction for decades. These people are not powerless, but they are powerless in the face of their addiction. Often, it is turning to something perceived as "outside" themselves that turns the tide.

THEY decided to change, not someone else, not God, and when they finally do successfully quit, it will be THEIR accomplishment, even with help, and AA won't acknowledge that.

This is not true at all. AA recognizes the individual's accomplishment and they even have little ceremonies to honor that accomplishment at various increments of time. The accomplishment is NOT attributed to god, and in fact, no belief in "god" is required in AA. The term "higher power" is frequently used, and every AA member defines their "higher power" on their own.

I just have a problem with the AA dogma that teaches and reinforces the idea that their members don't have control over their lives.

AA does not teach that. The process of the 12 steps is supposed to be a process of getting & maintaining control over one's life.

The problem as I see it now is that you don't understand the AA system and how it works in practice. You said elsewhere on this thread that you haven't actually experienced it yourself, so at this point you are extrapolating only from what you've read on the internet.

[masque12.livejournal.com]

Using is a choice. Addiction is not. Someone might choose to use, not knowing that they are predisposed to addiction.

Where is the transition? How does one determine if one is pre-disposed to it or not? I haven't seen any research that says there is any kind of evidence that addiction is genetic. About all you can say is that a family environment can contribute to it. Even still, there is a difference between using moderately, and using heavily, and if a person "is" predisposed to it, they most likely became a heavy user before becoming an addict. Once someone's an addict, yes, they have no choice, but they had to make certain choices before they bacame an addict.

Realizing an addiction is a problem and deciding to do something about it doesn't guarantee recovery. An addict is not powerless in general- but the very nature of addiction is that you don't have control over it. Gaining power greater than that of the addiction is the goal of recovery. You don't get that power just by deciding to recover.

First, I'm not saying deciding to quit guarantees recovery, but I view that decision as the first step towards taking control of one's life. They have to start with that. Whereas you seem to be saying that the person has power once they've recovered, I view the person's struggle to overcome their addiction as an example of developing power, and that sense of personal power is something that should be cultivated, instead of discouraged.

You're equating "powerless in the face of addition" to "powerless in general" and they aren't the same thing. There are plenty of functional addicts who have jobs, houses, families, etc, and also maintain their addiction for decades. These people are not powerless, but they are powerless in the face of their addiction. Often, it is turning to something perceived as "outside" themselves that turns the tide.

I'm not making that equation, that's how I perceive AA's position. The third stap says, "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him." (emphasis added) The various mentions of God, of praying to God to remove their obstacles, and other things like that in the 12 steps (http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/default/en_services_aa_sub.cfm?subpageid=44&pageid=34) seems to bear this out, as well as other things in the AA literature. I've read numerous accounts from AA members where the people are told to "Let go and let God," even when the issue under discussion doesn't pertain to their addiction, but to other problems in their lives. The Big Book tells them to apply the 12 steps to their whole life, not just their addiction.

This is not true at all. AA recognizes the individual's accomplishment and they even have little ceremonies to honor that accomplishment at various increments of time. The accomplishment is NOT attributed to god, and in fact, no belief in "god" is required in AA. The term "higher power" is frequently used, and every AA member defines their "higher power" on their own.

Higher Power, God (both appear in the AA literature), it comes down to the same thing, a force outside oneself that is keeping the person sober. It's ubiquitous in the literature, and it's all I hear about from AA members. The little ceremonies may award the individual, I'll grant that, but the sobriety of the members overall is credited to something other than the individual, and that's the problem I have with it.

I'm going too long, I'll continue this in another comment.

[masque12.livejournal.com]

AA does not teach that. The process of the 12 steps is supposed to be a process of getting & maintaining control over one's life.

It may be supposed to do that, but I stand by my interpretation. See the comment below for what I base it on.

The problem as I see it now is that you don't understand the AA system and how it works in practice. You said elsewhere on this thread that you haven't actually experienced it yourself, so at this point you are extrapolating only from what you've read on the internet.

It's true, that I haven't experienced it first hand. But I'm reading lots of testimonies, I've observed the behavior of members known personally to me, I've read the organization's own material, I've read criticisms of it by medical professionals, I've read reports of suspicious activity by the organization, etc. No, I don't have first hand experience, but there's a lot of evidence that I'm not alone in my assessment of it. I do acknowledge that people CAN get better in it, but I see that as more due to their own efforts and the luck in finding other people who are trying to do good within the organization. The program as laid out in the literature seems to be seriously flawed, and that is where my main problem with it lies.

The alternate 12 steps that I originally posted were kind of a thought experiment, but the whole reason that I'm concerned with this issue at all is because I care about the friends I have in the program. I WANT them to get over their problem, but I've already observed their behavior changing in ways that seem to be harmful. Whereas previously they were rather strong spirited people, all they seem to be talking about now is how weak they are, how helpless they are, how their Higher Power will fix them if they ask the right way, and it just seems rather cultlike. I've heard people who have been sober for nearly 20 years say they are afraid of what might happen if they quit going to meetings. At what point does AA become another addiction?

[xi-o-teaz.livejournal.com]

Since we're on the topic, I thought I'd mention a couple things (all going off of what I can recall from my studies):

First off, although I've not seen the literature my selves, I have it from many good authorities that there is a lot of research out there that suggests that "Addiction" is both biological and hereditary. Personally, I'm not convinced at all. Of course certain individuals are perhaps more prone to it, but the way many psychologists see it you are automatically an Addict(TM) if you have this particular genome. Even if this were "True(TM)", I find this beLIEf to be highly inEffective in dealing with one's Addiction.

On a similar note, Addiction is, by psychological definition, the inAbility to cease using a substance on one's own--thus the inherent "powerlessness" (otherwise, you're not technically an Addict(TM)). Magickally speaking, Addiction is but one subDivision of Obsession or (Demonic) Possession. It can thus be dealt with accordingly.

I should mention that, as you stated, merely taking that first step of admitting one's (seeming, or history of acting out one's)PowerLessNess is, in itself, a very emPowering Act. And as you and I know quite well, merely drastically changing one's orientation/perspective/relationship with something can make all the difference in the world. Not to say that kicking Addiction is ever easy, but it's certainly DoAble by a resourceful, dedicated, and Willing individual.

AA, as it seems to be set up and run, is more oriented to a "Devotional" Path--think Bhakti Yoga--"baaaaaa". But as is known to many of my friends (and others), the Path of Devotion is not with certain universal appeal.

IIRC, marik has talked about AA at length, as I believe he was in The Program(TM) for a time. He has some interesting insights on this, if you can contact him.

[masque12.livejournal.com]

As I understand it, physical addiction is definitely biological in nature, it's a chemical dependency. If the person doesn't get the substance, they go through withdrawal symptoms of varying intensity, depending on the substance. Once the person has gone through the withdrawal, the dependency is gone, although it is highly likely that it will redevelop with further exposure to the substance. This is general, different substances act weirdly, but that's not the issue. In any case, depending on the substance, there may be medication available that can help one deal with physical addiction. As I said, I haven't personally seen any data that shows a genetic predisposition to addiction, but if it exists, great, it doesn't change my main points in this discusssion. Assuming for a moment that one can have a genetic predisposition towards being an addict, I think it's fair to say that this is a predisposition for physical addiction, since genetics is mostly chemistry. What this would boil down to, I suppose, is that the person's body is hardwired into developing a physical dependency on the substance quicker than someone without the predisposition.

There is also psychological addiction, which is a pattern of behavior that one develops. It can be hereditary to a certain extent, such as if one has a number of addicts in their family, and they're constantly being exposed to that type of behavior, they might pick up the behavior pattern from them. There's lots of ways it can happen. We can call this environmental heredity.

Because the (supposed) genetic predisposition and the environmental heredity will naturally dovetail, some may draw the conclusion that there is a genetic predisposition towards psychological addiction, but if I am correct, this would be a misunderstanding of the factors involved.

All of the above is speculation on my part, but it seems well-reasoned to me, so I'm going to use it as a working model. As I find more data to confirm or contradict it, I will alter the model.

This will be continued in the next post, as I'm sure I'm going too long.

[xi-o-teaz.livejournal.com]

On my way to bed, I saw your response...good to know I'm not the only night owl here ;-)



The most common meme in psychological circles, to elaborate on what I posted above, is that

the biology of an Addict affects the brain chemistry, so as to force the poor Addict into psychological dependence. So it's kind of like what you were saying (exactly like you said? it's late, and been a long day...), but the brain is almost "poised from birth" to pounce upon an Addictive substance. Once an Addict has found hir first Addiction (mary jane, alky hall, whatever), the brain is somehow permanently re-hardwired into (psychologically) requiring the substance.

Just like physical Addiction causes physical pain, disEase, imBalance, and ill physical Health; psychological Addiction causes psychological pain, disEase, imBalance, and ill psychological Health.

I'm almost more of the opinion that people more prone to Addiction are prolly the same neurotic types that are more prone to OCD. Neuroses can be a pain in the ass, but the most powerful Mages I've met have always been neurotic as fuck, so whatchya gonna do??? But that's another thread...

[masque12.livejournal.com]

On my way to bed, I saw your response...good to know I'm not the only night owl here ;-)

I work nights, I get off in a little less than an hour.

As for the rest of the info, it's good to know, if you come across some of the research, send it my way, I'd like to peruse it. I think I'm with you on the neurotic thing, though.

[masque12.livejournal.com]

I should mention that, as you stated, merely taking that first step of admitting one's (seeming, or history of acting out one's)PowerLessNess is, in itself, a very emPowering Act. And as you and I know quite well, merely drastically changing one's orientation/perspective/relationship with something can make all the difference in the world. Not to say that kicking Addiction is ever easy, but it's certainly DoAble by a resourceful, dedicated, and Willing individual.

That's pretty much the root of my whole argument.

(SNIP)
AA as a "devotional" path is rather kinder than I would describe it, but it is not entirely inaccurate.

IIRC, marik has talked about AA at length, as I believe he was in The Program(TM) for a time. He has some interesting insights on this, if you can contact him.

He was indeed, and I first heard about that AADeprogramming.com site in a thread on the Z(Cluster), he may have even been the one to provide the link. Keeping in mind that this thread was a while ago, I seem to recall that he eventually left the program for many of the reasons that I am criticizing it, and that now he's at the point where he can have an occasional drink without a full relapse, which to me is an indicator that his addiction, at least, is fully cured.
He sparked my interest in the subject in a vague way at the time of that thread, my more recent concern with it has to do with some of my friends being in the program right now, and the fact that the show, Penn & Teller: BULLSHIT just did an episode on the topic. If you're not familiar with the show, I highly recommend it, it's basically a debunking show, they've done episodes on PETA, Creationism, Profanity, weight loss programs, all kinds of stuff. Somewhat biased, as all things are, but entertaining and full of good info.